(More great suggestions from e-friend, MT...)

"I’ve been trying to obtain a reasonably coherent idea of what the kip is doing so I could share this with you. I also spent some time modifying the scenarios in terms how I was working on our own possible itinerary.

What to do in 7 weeks?

Most people we met in Vietnam and from TT postings spend about 3-4 weeks in Vietnam. With our 6 weeks we did a lot of lingering. Most travelers appear to allocate about 2-3 weeks for Laos focussing on the north and central regions. So, I reckon you could visit both countries. For fun I worked out a couple of scenarios. It is just a feasibility breakdown as I guess that like Rene and I, you work from a general concept and modify it once you get there.

First one

This one gives you about 15-18 days to get in and see Laos and the remainder in Vietnam.

Fly into Bkk (When I checked prices, direct flights from Australia into Laos were a couple of hundred dollars more than flights into Bkk.)

Next night, train up north, to cross over into Laos at Chiang Khong. Timing here is critical if you want to get visas at this border – apparently they don’t issue them on weekends. Also the slow boats may not, as travelers report, operate on weekends.

Slow boat down to Luang Prabang 3 days

Luang Prabang 4-5 days

Fly to Phonsavan 2 days there plus the Plain of Jars. (the interest value for children may be questionable).

Fly either back to LP or direct to Vientiane

Vang Vien 1 day travelling there plus 2 days there

Vientiane 1-2 days 1 day to get there from LP a couple of hours from VV

Bus to Savannakhet 2 days tough bus ride to get there plus a day there. This would allow you to experience Laos south of Vientiane.

Then head by bus (only runs a couple of days a week?) to the Lao Bao border crossing 1 day to get to Dong Ha apparently a nice little beach which might be good for a day or two.

Then Hue and decide to head north or south. You could either concentrate on just one of these, or go north see all you want up there and then take a train, bus or fly down to Da Nang and make your way down through all the southern places and fly home from Saigon. The latter is do-able, I think, with the time you have. Scenario three gives possible amount of time for each place in Vietnam.

(An alternative would be to fly direct from Vientiane to Ha No. This knocks out some gruelling bus trips, saves some days and avoids the back tracking in Vietnam.)

Second one

This one about 12-16 days in Laos

Same as the first but fly direct to Vientiane or into Bkk and cross into Laos at Nong Khai. (but do you want to revisit NK?)

Then go up to LP, then do the rest and again as with scenario one decide if you want to visit the Plain of Jars and do the land border crossing into Vietnam.

Third one

This one about 12-16 days in Laos

Fly direct to Saigon – flights to Saigon are cheaper than flights to Vientiane from Australia

2 days Saigon for sight seeing and to organise tours and book train seats/sleepers (I think that can be done for cities ahead), 1 day tour Cao Doc and Cu Chi, 3 day Mekong tour, 1 day back in Saigon.

1 day bus up to Hoi An, 3-4 days there including time out at the beach

1 day train from Da Nang to Hue

2-3 days in Hue, including a day on the Perfume River

overnight train or bus from Hue to Ha Noi

4 days in Ha Noi

2 days on Halong Bay. There was a posting on TT from a low key Australian tour agency, called Griswalds a week or so ago. Their HB trip includes a night sleeping on a boat. Apparently, they have a café in Ha Noi in a street near the ANZ bank close to the lake. They have an internet site.

1 day Ninh Binh

take an overnight train up towards Sa Pa - 4 days Sa Pa and Bac Hai (few people still going to the latter)

2 days to travel back to Ha Noi and to fly into to Vientiane.

Then Vientiane, Vang Vien, Luang Prabang, Plain of Jars

slow boat from LP up to Huay Xai dependent on time of year

2 days to cross the border and to travel down to Bkk

(An alternative would be to back track from Luang Prabang to Vientiane and to fly or overland via the Friendship Bridge to Bkk or fly to Australia from Vientiane.)

Fourth one

Spend the whole 7 weeks in Vietnam. With this add on and expand the following:

5 day Mekong tour

Da Lat 3 days ( hire some kind of transport with or without a guide/driver to see the areas around Da Lat)

3-4 days Nha Trang

1-2 days Da Nang,

Marble Mountain outside Da Nang 1 day

7 days around Hoi An cycling through villages, hire boats etc, Cham ruins

More time around Hue – nice city and environs

More time in Ha Noi – lots to discover there

Perhaps a week plus in Sa Pa and Bac Hai – including possibly a trek.

Griswalds can organise treks – maybe there are other agencies that operate treks now. The day walk we did out of Bac Hai was great, reminiscent of Nepal but further out it may be more arduous than you experienced in Nepal as the terrain may include less defined walking paths. For fun, I rang the Griswalds to get some information about their treks. I couldn’t get a comparison with Nepal as they hadn’t trekked there. They said the Bac Hai trek difficulty wise was comparable with a climb on Cat Ba which Rene and I did. That climb was on par with Australian bushwalking beyond established trails – it meant climbing and slithering over rocky outcrops etc. Lots of sliding coming down the hill again. The Cat Ba climb was a trifle reminiscent terrain wise with a 5 day Chiang Rai trek we did some 20 years ago – thus steep in a very different way that you find in Nepal. (I believe that trekking or climbing hills is more of a psychological rather than an a physical challenge.)

3 days Halong Bay including Cat Ba.

Fly home from Ha Noi?

Or if you have moved faster through Vietnam than expected, bounce over to Laos – even just to go to Vientiane, Vang Vien and Luang Prabang. The key decision then would be point of departure back to Australia. If it were me, I would be inclined to build in flexibility by booking a flight back home from Bkk regardless of whether I was getting into Bkk from either Ha Noi or somewhere in Laos. Whenever I visit Bkk I always find something there to interest me.

Thoughts on the scenarios

I read again the account of your last trip to get a feel of what you might like to do with your 7 weeks. My intuition and research tells me that Laos is a place for those who like to experience the nuances of a country, discover the people, interact with them etc which indicates that it would be a good country for the Lockleys. Laos, doesn’t, I suspect offer the same range of travel diversity as does Vietnam, Thailand, India which have more historical sites, cities oscillating between the old past, recent past and confronting the realities of functioning as modern cities etc. I think Laos will be very low key, reminiscent of small towns and villages in Thailand, India or Sri Lanka with less overt colour, culture etc. However, so many travelers wax lyrical about the very friendly Laotians which makes me think that your kids may have a great opportunity to react there with local children – although I believe from our Vietnamese experience that will also be the case in Vietnam. Luang Prabang sounds wonderful and the descriptions of Vang Vien suggest that it might be great for the younger Lockleys.

Hotel and travel comfort wise I think that Laos might be more rigorous than Thailand, Vietnam and some parts of India. However, you and your children are such experienced and enthusiastic travelers that I guess you would enjoy the vagaries of Laos. You know smelly, primitive loos etc. The kids may find the basic buses more fun than would some mature travelers. As you have rafted in Thailand and as Vietnam means waterways you may not want to do the slow boat down to Luang Prabang.

Vietnam has loads to offer – a fascinating country on a whole array of dimensions.

Visiting both Laos and Vietnam encompasses extra costs – visas and flights. Also, it would be a little messier re entrance and exit options. However, Laos is so close to Vietnam, the prospect of including it is tantalising. The only reason we did not jump over into Laos when we visited Vietnam was the prohibition then on independent travel outside Vientiane.

After reflecting upon the scenarios I think that the first would be the most demanding, especially if you elect to do the land crossing into Vietnam. I’d probably go for scenario 4 and see just how much time you have left for Laos - even 12 days would be nice there. One of our friends raved about his 9 days in Laos - he did it with Intrepid who arranged internal flights.

Transport in Laos

You asked about safety. What constitutes safety is difficult to assess, based on official travel advisories, other people’s travel experiences and people’s capacity to absorb perceived risks. Whilst Rene and I have a reasonable capacity for risky transport we do not have children which creates another dimension. After assessing TT postings, I believe that there are no real safety issues with either Laotian river or bus transport. Risk level may be a trifle higher than in Thailand, Vietnam, India or Nepal. With Laos, travelers are not reporting incidences on route 13 between LP and Vientiane which apparently had been questionable in the past. Many tourists are taking this road. Decisions on river and road travel is dependent upon the time of year - eg a couple of weeks ago the Vientiane Times reported that monsoonal rains had washed out sections of route 13. The uncertainty about whether buses are going to depart according to schedule and building in extra time if the blasted things breakdown is a major issue. The state of the northern circuitous route to Phonsavan, plus the fact that the more direct route 7 has potential bandit problems, is why you should fly there. However Laotian planes do not have a great reputation safety wise. Apparently, planes from Vientiane go more regularly than from Luang Prabang to Phonsavan and a better type of plane, safety wise. We think we will fly from LP because it fits in better with our travel plans. Reputable tour agencies use Lao Aviation to fly their groups from Vientiane to LP and from Vientiane to Phonsavan – so LA can’t be all that bad. People say the long distance speed boats are unsafe.

I like to put things into perspective. Last weekend 12 people died on Victorian roads and we here absorb that. A couple of years ago 3 westerners were murdered in Cambodia and thus people tell me I shouldn’t travel there but I run a greater risk statistically with driving on Australian roads. This matter of safety really comes down to personal judgement and carefully assessing who is giving the advice and whether it is valid and based on substantiated evidence. So – with all this, question my validity and my biases – working in a uni I am research oriented, hence I want verifiable information and as a traveler I take some risks that others may prefer to avoid.

The Laotian kip

Initially I was concerned about reports surfacing from late September, that the kip is now stronger against the $US and the bhat which indicated that travelling in Laos would be more expensive. This may not necessarily be the case. I have done some research: checking currency exchange sites, the Bangkok Post, Reuters, the Vientiane Times plus a site that charted kip fluctuations over a couple of years. I also contacted the Laotian Embassy. Here is the information I gleaned: the ’98 edition of Lonely Planet cited just over 3,000 kip to one $US. Other resources gave the following: in February ’99 it was 4300 kip, in August around 9,000 kip, late September it plunged to just under 5,000, October 1 it was around 5,700 kip and Oct 9 6,325 kip to one $US. These are all official rates. Current travelers are placing the rate around 7,000-8,000 on the black market which apparently everybody uses – incidentally the Vientiane Times quotes both the official and black market rates. Regardless of the kip fluctuation, I am betting on market forces coming into play where hotels and guest houses (which is a major daily expense), relying on tourism may retain the same $US dollar rate for their prices regardless of how the kip is performing. This impression was reinforced by 2 travelers in Vientiane last week who reported that hotel prices are still pegged on the old $US rate and therefore no more expensive. As food is extremely cheap, ditto local transport - even if the kip were to plummet downwards and as hotel prices appear to be constant I reckon that Laos will be cheaper or on par with Vietnam or Thailand. We were planning on $US250 a week which would include local transport, some reasonable eateries, and a combination of budget and mid level hotels and from what I have read, I think this is still feasible.

Visas for Laos

You will know that you can get 15 days visas at most of the border crossings and 30 days at the Friendship Bridge and I think if you fly direct to Vientiane. Visa extensions are available within Laos – although possibly iffy outside Vientiane. The extension rate is quoted as $US3-5 per day. I contacted the Laotian Embassy in Canberra and asked if we could get a 30day visa – the answer was: well, yes if you want one. It takes 5 working days to process (very different from the advice in the LP guide). The cost at $A35 compares well with the prices quoted on TT for those who are getting them in Thailand or Vietnam. The Laotion visa situation may be similar to that in Vietnam where regulations change. Obtaining visas ahead means that you don’t waste valuable travel time getting to embassies, consulates or travel agencies, waiting to get the visas processed – maybe hours if you pay more or days.

Innoculations

We are now into jab mode. The uni doctor who consulted specialists has advised that we will also need a jab for Japanese Encephalitis which is endemic beyond Vientiane and Phon Phenh and should be had for those spending a month or more in these areas. Unfortunately we qualify for this jab – yuck - it costs $200. The LP Laotian Guide notes that there are possible allergic reactions– but I got the doctor to spell these out and they didn’t sound too bad. The disease is mosquito borne, nastier than some other conditions as it can be fatal. Once you have worked out how many weeks you will spend in rural areas in Vietnam and Laos you might want to raise JE with your doctor as I drew it to the uni doctor’s attention as it was not on their normal jabs check list. I thought I should mention this as I know you are punctilious about healthy travelling.

How did I find the Silom Golden Inn?

I had highlighted a couple of cheapish hotels from the Lonely Planet but found that they were some distance from where my friends were staying and a longish walk down sois which I didn’t particularly relish doing late at night on my own. I then just checked out hotels that I came across, found the conveniently located Golden Inn, and discovered later that it was listed in the ‘99 LP guide – but outside my initial price range. Incidentally Sam’s floating hotel is a fair walk from K’s central area. Walking at night into town I had a few confrontations with assertive dogs. Rene and I had an interesting experience with a pack of dogs in Ladakh – a salutary lesson for this dog lover. Actually "an interesting experience" is an understatement! It was downright nasty.

Olympic Airways

As you liked the Olympic saga, here is another snippet. I have to confess that I participated happily in the seat squabble mayhem. An old Greek lady merely burrowed deeper into my designated seat when I asked her to vacate it. As she was disinclined to understand English and looked blankly at my boarding pass, I removed her bags from the adjacent seat, grabbed her by the arms and gently deposited her there. This approach, I viewed as merely one woman assisting another of similar height. The poor dear refused to allow a tall Adonis, dripping with gold chains, place her bags in the overhead lockers. She flew to Bangkok, her feet perched on bags and clutching a carpet bag on her knees which meant that her tray/table rested at an alarming tilt on this precious bag. A cricketer would have been impressed by my deft catches of cutlery and cups erupting off her tray in my direction. As the flight progressed, she and I became great friends.

And to tell you a little more about ourselves

Last weekend we went riding - Rene on his long legged, elegant thoroughbred mare, Shannay, affectionately called the bimbo and me on my little grey gelding, Kalki, otherwise known as houdini horse or mini monster. You may know that in Hindu mythology, Kalki is a white stallion who saves the world from evil. Kalki, as a young horse, may well have aspired to stallion status before human intervention. We rode with one of our friends on her grey Anglo Arab, Shadowfax and her four year son on his diminutive pony called Cricket. At this time of the year, with spring grass, horses are inclined to be frisky. I will probably stop riding a couple of weeks before we depart. Years ago I rode in Holland three days before a flight to visit our families in Australia. My favourite horse bucked me, I remounted and he dumped me a second time - I like to think that in his own peculiar way he was trying to tell me not to leave him. However, an unexpected departure from a horse’s back is not to be recommended for those approaching international flights or long hours on basic Asian buses.

Can you please tell me more about Nong Khai

We are thinking about exiting Laos from Vientiane to NK and then taking fast Thai buses to Ubon Ratchathani and then re-entering Laos at the Chong Mek border crossing. This would allow us to see this part of Thailand and it possibly would be more efficient and more comfortable than taking Laotian buses from Vientiane down to Pakse. We would then spend about 10 days in southern Laos.

Regards to all the Lockleys. I am looking forward to hearing about how your travel plans are progressing.